- In 2014, Miles Schwartz lost his internship at Salesforce because of a game of ping pong at work.
- Schwartz learned that she prefers a work environment where she can take a break when she needs it.
- As a co-founder of his own company, he says employees should be given the freedom to choose how they work.
This essay is based on a transcript of a conversation with Miles Schwartz, 33, a Montreal native who briefly interned at Salesforce before co-founding his own company. The following has been edited for length and clarity.
I was never a great student, and anything with a heavy structure always made me anxious, but I thought I could succeed in business once I left school.
After studying Marketing at Concordia University, I started an internship at Salesforce, and six weeks in, I was escorted out of the building while playing ping pong during my lunch break.
I never thrived in a structured 9 to 5 environment. I have since co-founded my own company and no longer look over my employees' shoulders. Giving employees the freedom to work how they want is key.
I didn't enjoy my time at Salesforce.
I began my internship in September 2014 at Salesforce’s Toronto office.
It was a really bad experience. I thought I would be answering business calls, chatting with people, going to meetings, but as a Business Development intern, I was mostly doing data entry and looking for contacts.
As a social person, it made me feel uncomfortable. I felt left out because I wasn't having fun. Everyone else seemed to like it there. They didn't overwork employees, they paid them fairly, and there was an easy path to promotion.
I got homesick. Going out for a beer after work is part of the culture, but I'm very into health and fitness. After work, I like to do what I love, like running or going to the gym.
My work hours were 9 to 5. I remember one time I came into work at 9:15am after working late the previous day and my boss came up to me and said, “Do you know work starts at 9?” That's when I realized that appearance really matters there.
I was fired for playing table tennis during the day.
The internship would last for four months, after which he was expected to move to full-time employment with the company.
One day, six weeks into the job, I was feeling foggy and tired. I had already taken my hour-long lunch break, and later that day, a senior colleague asked me if I wanted to join him in the office to play ping pong.
We played for at least 30 minutes and I was back at my desk within an hour, intending to stay late that night to make up for lost time.
When I came back, my boss told me I couldn't just disappear during the day, especially as an intern, and that it wouldn't give a good impression if I wanted to get promoted in the company.
I explained that I would often stay late to get work done, but she said the job was 9 to 5. I got the feeling that Salesforce didn't want new hires to work their own hours or do things their own way.
I told her I didn't want the promotion, I wanted to finish my internship and leave, but my manager politely told me I shouldn't stay, so security came, took my computer and badge, and escorted me out of the building.
I didn’t hold any grudges about it – why would they expend energy educating me about the company if I wasn’t going to want to be there?
I thrived in a less structured work environment
I thrive in an environment where I can listen to my body and step away from work for a bit when I need to. I can work a 13-hour day and still be successful if I'm in flow, but I don't have those days. That day at Salesforce, I just wasn't feeling it. I wanted to play ping pong and clear my head.
It reminded me that I don't thrive in a structured environment and I began to worry that I would never be able to find a workplace where I belonged.
I tried another sales job working for a friend's uncle, but only lasted a few weeks because I hated making 90 calls a day and getting hung up on.
I took a break from my corporate job and started modelling to earn some cash. Eventually, I arranged meetings with startups but none of them seemed right for me until I had an interview with Flinks, a fintech startup, in April 2017. Flinks offered me the role of Business Development Director.
I was scared I would fail. The weekend before we launched, I asked one of the founders some questions about where he wanted me to work, which companies I should reach out to first, etc. He replied, “Why are you asking me? You're in charge.”
The moment he said that, I knew this was exactly the opportunity I was looking for. The freedom to do whatever I wanted motivated me. When I worked in corporate, I went from hating having to make 90 sales calls a day to making 200 sales calls a day on my own.
Over time, I built my network and began speaking at company conferences. A year later, I became the Chief Commercial Officer. During my time there, Flinks became one of the fastest growing fintech companies in Canada.
I co-founded my own company to give people freedom in how they work
I left Flinks in 2019 to co-found my own company, Zūm Rails.
I work extremely hard, probably close to 50 hours a week, but I've never worked so hard that I was exhausted.
Now I can walk my dog in the mountains during the day and answer emails when I get home in the evening.
My co-founders and I aren’t looking over people’s shoulders at Zūm Rails.
Although the working hours are 9 to 5, our culture is more mission-driven and employees don't mind the hours. We hire talented specialists who want to succeed.
Working remotely as a team of 50+ people requires some structure – for example, a sales development rep ensures all call notes are updated in the CRM before handing over to an account manager.
But I don't micromanage how my employees get their work done. I remember thinking it was odd when a senior colleague asked me if I could go to a doctor's appointment in the afternoon.
Our employees have the freedom to work from wherever they feel they perform best – co-working spaces, the office, or home – as long as the work is completed to the expected standard.
Giving people the freedom to work how they want helps increase productivity.
Salesforce did not respond to Business Insider's request for comment.